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Like for Like Hot Water Service Replacement

Like for Like Hot Water Service Replacement

Like For Like Online Pricing

In Queensland, if you see online website prices or are quoted over the phone a price for like for like hot water service replacement for an electric or gas storage tank¹ system, don’t believe one word of it. The prices are a sham designed to scam you into calling them to book in the job.

The prices quoted above are about right for a like for like installation. The problem is probably only one person in a hundred would qualify for this pricing.

I can 99% guarantee² you will not receive that price for a legally compliant hot water service replacement issued with a QBCC Form 4 compliance certificate.

The pricing and terminology are deliberately deceptive and are a scam. I will categorically state the prices are absolutely bullshit and lies, for most installations.

Going back over ten years ago yes all plumbers undertook like for like hot water service replacement when replacing electric or gas storage hot water tanks. Simply this was legally compliant at the time and accepted industry practice.

What is like for like hot water service replacement?

“Like for like” installation is frequently seen as the basis of pricing on websites as a starting point for pricing for replacing your hot water system. They usually use confusing terminology stating that the pricing is starting from what is a low price for a like for like installation. They then vaguely define like for like as being for replacing the hot water system where it is:

  • the same type of hot water system as the old hot water system
  • that the hot water system is being installed in precisely the same location as the old hot water system
  • that the new hot water system is the same size as the old hot water system
  • that the new hot water system has the same electrical requirements as the old hot water system

Of course, it’s not explained clearly like I have using sixty-seven words.  Instead, they tell all of that in one compressed vague sentence of thirty-four words.

And naturally, there will be getting out of gaol clauses that are again vague and confusing. These clauses will state that other costs may be incurred because:

  • you have individual site installation requirements to ensure your like for like hot water service replacement is compliant with all regulations
  • if you require any additional valves installed that were not in the like for like scope of works
  • if you request removal and disposal of the old hot water service
  • if you require a new concrete slab or support base
  • if you need any additional piping to be installed
  • if you require any additional electrical wiring or any electrical work other than disconnecting and reconnecting
  • any work what so ever that is required to the existing plumbing, electrical or gas infrastructure to ensure your like for like hot water service replacement is compliant with the council, state or commonwealth regulations
  • any additional labour or equipment required due to site access conditions

All of the above are standard requirements on any hot water system replacement to meet the legal requirements of the Plumbing and Drainage Act 2018 and the Plumbing and Drainage Regulation 2019.

The whole reason all of the above and many more possibilities are excluded from a like for like hot water service replacement offer is to fool you.

Ultimately every existing hot water service installation has individual requirements when installing a replacement hot water service.  That is why a website price or a quote over the phone is meaningless.

You can only ever get a correct price for replacing your old, leaking hot water service after a comprehensive site inspection. In the small print on all websites that quote like for like replacements, they almost always state somewhere that pricing may change once their plumber undertakes a site inspection

Why Is A Like for Like Hot Water Service Replacement Non-Compliant?

The photo below is a Dux 50 litre electric hot water service that has been replaced like for like. Except it is utterly non-compliant because:

  • the hot water pipes are not insulated
  • the relief valve is not insulated
  • there is no pressure reduction valve
  • there is no cold-water expansion valve
  • there is no tempering valve
  • as it is an internal installation, there is no hot water tray to contain water leaking from the tank, pipes or valves
  • there is no automatic shutoff valve to cut off the water should there be a leak
  • there was no QBCC form 4 given to the property owner

There is no such thing as a like for like installation. There is definitely no such thing as an exemption for a QBCC Form 4 compliance certificate if you are only undertaking a like for like installation.

What is required to replace a leaking hot water service?

If your hot water service is leaking and requires a replacement then in all likelihood it will be at least eight years old and probably much more. I can guarantee the infrastructure regarding valves and overflow drains will not be compliant with the legal requirements that we must now adhere to.

We recently replaced the nine-year-old Siddons heat pump unit in the photo below that was no longer functioning with a CO2 Smart Heat Pump hot water unit. Even though it was only installed nine years ago, it was utterly non-compliant with the current requirements.

Since 1 July 2019 every hot water service whether its a new installation or a replacement installation must be installed in complete compliance with AS/NZS 3500.4:2018 Plumbing and Drainage Part 4: Heated Water Services.

This standard, along with several other standards, is called into law via the Plumbing and Drainage Act 2018 and the Plumbing and Drainage Regulation 2019.

The installation of a new or replacement hot water service must comply absolutely with the standard and in particular Section 5 Installation of Water Heaters – General Requirements. The scope of this section states explicitly: This Section sets out general requirements for the installation of water heaters, their location, support, cold water service valves, the vent or drain lines, and the first 2 m of heated water supply piping.

This section sets out exactly how all hot water service installations must be undertaken. Nowhere does it refer to a like for like hot water service replacement.

No professional, reputable plumber will quote you on a like for like installation as they know it does not exist. Companies who market on this basis are engaging in deceptive and misleading marketing to get their foot in your door, so they can then upsell you.

Any plumber who starts telling you that you can get a lower price with a like for like replacement is simply a liar.

Every hot water service replacement must have a Form 4 compliance certificate lodged with the QBCC and the appropriate fee paid. Ultimately this is for your protection as compliantly installed plumbing, and drainage installation is about protecting your health.

Replacing a hot water service does not involve guesswork it’s about merely obeying the law and being compliant with the Plumbing and Drainage Act 2018. If you have had your hot water service replaced as a like for like replacement you need to report it now to the QBCC as an offence complaint. The plumber who undertook the installation will be required to return and complete the installation in compliance with the Plumbing and Drainage Act 2018 at his cost.

If you are uncertain about your hot water service replacement or need assistance contact us on (07) 5580 4311 and we will give you our opinion on how to proceed.

Footnotes

¹ : Replacing an instantaneous gas hot water unit is frequently like for like as it is a straight disconnection and reconnection to the gas connection and to the water pipes. In most instantaneous units, there is no need to install or replace valves as all management of temperature is undertaken inside the unit.

² : The only time I have seen a compliant like for like replacement is when a faulty hot water service has had to be replaced within the first 12 months after installation and was already fully compliant. This is a genuine like for like replacement under the manufacturers guarantee where the client pays nothing and where everything concerning the plumbing and electrical infrastructure was already compliant.

Plumbing Rip Offs

Plumbing Rip Offs

Dispelling the Myths of Plumbing Rip-Offs

Plumbing rip offs, in my opinion, are frequently emotive exaggerations bereft of facts from people whose only motive is not to pay their plumber’s bills.

In the realm of plumbing services, the notion of being ripped off often stems from misunderstandings or attempts to avoid paying a reasonable fee for services rendered.

It’s worth noting that the perceived deceit is, more often than not, perpetuated by other plumbers aiding unscrupulous individuals who are trying to avoid paying their bills.

The Reality of Client Expectations

Plumbing rip-offs, in many instances, are exaggerated claims devoid of substantial evidence, usually propelled by individuals looking to avoid settling their plumbing bills. Regrettably, most plumbing rip-offs are enacted not upon the customer but on the plumber, usually facilitated by other plumbers who naively assist con artists without receiving any payment in return.

Every week, we receive phone calls at our office practically demanding that we condemn another plumber’s work over the phone or affirm that they have been overcharged. These individuals never wish to pay for this advice or want the situation thoroughly investigated.

Unfortunately, many plumbers are completely gullible and fall prey to these baseless statements made over the phone by individuals they have never met, hoping to gain work and payment from this misguided agreement.

You are ripping me off because Joe Bumcrack Plumbing Service is half your price!

In the last 42 years, I’ve heard multiple variations of this excuse for not paying an account countless times.

Buyer’s regret is a constant issue for all businesses. I remain bewildered by people who turn to the bottom feeders of our industry and turn them into experts. These hobby businesses are frequently referred to as Joe Bumcrack plumbers for obvious reasons. Of course, Joe Bumcrack’s phone wasn’t answered, and he wasn’t available at 10 pm on a Saturday night to clear the blocked drain. But of course, his word counts because he told the customer what he wanted to hear concerning what price should have been charged and plumbing rip offs.

The reality is half the price of what?

We have never been interested in being the cheapest Gold Coast plumber. We are not interested in what other plumbers charge because every business differs regarding cost structures, overhead costs and productivity levels that are utilised to set a selling price for a business’s services.

Urban Myths of a Recommended Rate are Just That Myths

Notwithstanding the urban myth that there is a “going rate” or “recommended rate”  for plumbers, it is illegal under the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 for businesses to collude in setting prices or for there to be any set or recommended rates by master plumbers associations.

Here at Whywait Plumbing, we take pride in our industry’s best practice service levels. We endeavour without exception to deliver quality workmanship with expertise and long-lasting permanent solutions to complex plumbing problems that are fully compliant with the legal requirements of the Plumbing and Drainage Act 2018.

A recent e-mail I received with the following quote from Benjamin Franklin, “The Bitterness of Poor Quality Remains Long After the Sweetness of Low Price is Forgotten” always applies, and that is the lowest price is not still the best.

With plumbing problems, they are frequently reactive, and the practice of going back after the job is completed to Joe Bumcrack Plumbing Services for his expert opinion on what work should have been undertaken is counterproductive as you are not comparing apples with apples.

The Complexity of the Plumbing Industry

Plumbing is like everything else, with a plethora of solutions, methods and opinions to solve problems. This, in turn, creates multiple pricing solutions if you do not specify exactly what products you want to install with the result that you require. We accept that our customers are often in a situation where they are choosing between the price we must charge versus the quality of the service.

More and more, we are seeing where a customer has researched what he should budget for a job via Google and on websites such as Bunnings. The reality is they don’t have the expertise or knowledge to undertake the research, so end up with a superficial answer. This research then becomes the driving force in determining the price they think they should pay for our service.

It is our experience over 42 years that many clients fool themselves or their employer into choosing the lowest price service to fit within a budget that was flawed from the start. Typically this results in budget blowouts in the short term as the lowest-quality service and products have to be replaced long before they should have been.

Equally, the highest price does not always mean the highest quality service. Frequently the highest price and the lowest price for service are due to inefficiencies in the service delivery combined with there not being a specifically tailored specification.

When you are assessing a company to provide service delivery, please ignore Joe Bumcrack Plumbing Services and their constant cry that all their competitors are involved in plumbing rip offs. The ability of companies such as Whywait Plumbing, Oceanside Plumbing, Red Beard Plumbing or Waterfox Plumbing to meet your service and business requirements should be paramount in decisions.

Equally successful past performance is just as critical to ensuring quality service and installation take precedence over the enticement of low-priced service delivery.

The Misconception of Hourly Rates

No legitimate business works on hourly rates. In reality, most businesses charge a set price for a set service task. Even in the construction industry, businesses such as tilers and plasterers charge per m² or brickies per 100 or 1000 bricks laid.

The exception to this is far too many plumbers and electricians who won’t invest in quantity surveying software and the time to create task-based pricing. As a result, we have many Joe Bumcrack plumbers who work on hourly rates that do not cover the cost of wages and accuse all their competitors of engaging in plumbing rip offs.

Even for a solo operator plumber or electrician, their break-even points will be between $100 – $150 per hour, depending on their overhead costs. So if you engage a plumber who is telling you their hourly rate is $80, then you can guarantee they will be doubling up somewhere or charging for services that are not delivered.

Hourly rates are a meaningless component in the overall service cost, being utterly subjective to the point of being meaningless.

I’m well aware many people think an hourly rate for a plumber in excess of $100 is a plumbing rip off and extortionate. This is why hourly rates are meaningless because, within that price, countless expenses have to be covered, such as wages, superannuation, WorkCover, fuel, insurance, vehicle repairs, equipment repairs and replacement, travel time, and so the list goes on and on.

I can only repeat that labour is only one component of the cost when working through a task cost in quantity surveying software. The other components are overheads, materials and equipment.

Plumbers who charge using hourly rates frequently engage in charging base-to-base travel time or charging for apprentices who are really goffers or for making multiple trips to the merchants for materials.

The Infeasibility of Ballpark Phone Estimates

I repeat incessantly that no professional plumber can give you an estimate over the phone.  This is due to the variability and complexity of plumbing issues. Solving plumbing problems over the phone with any degree of certainty is an absolute impossibility. Every plumbing problem is entirely variable and can change rapidly once you start working on it.

The most common price we are asked for over the phone is for replacing a hot water service. Sadly many plumbers will indulge people and give costs for replacing a hot water service over the phone based on “Like for Like” installation.

This is utterly deceptive, as there is no such thing as a like-for-like installation. Every replacement installation must be done in accordance with ASNZS 3500.4:2018, which requires substantial upgrades on the original installation, which is frequently over ten years old. Of course, once they get on-site, they discover you need all sorts of extras such as valves, insulation and drain installation.

To ensure a fair and accurate quote, insist on a comprehensive site inspection, which can reveal underlying issues that might not be apparent at the outset, providing a more accurate estimation of the costs involved. Even then, that can change as often once you start on the job, you can get a myriad of faults to show up that cannot be detected by a visual inspection.

Comparative Pricing and Quality of Service are All Relative

 With the advent of Google, it’s become easier for individuals to set up inexpensive websites, promising a variety of services at reduced prices, hoping to lure customers in with the promise of discounted or free services.

These enticing promises of “No call out fee!”, “Free quotes!” and others create an illusion of value. However, as the saying goes, “There’s no such thing as a free lunch”.

In an industry riddled with misconceptions and misinformation, our ongoing mission at Whywait Plumbing is to deliver services that uphold the highest quality and compliance standards. As we navigate the complex world of plumbing services, we encourage you to look beyond enticing offers and seek out providers prioritising quality and reliability over superficial discounts.

 

Tradies Discounts for Cash Payments Rip Off Everyone

Tradies Discounts for Cash Payments Rip Off Everyone

Everyone loves a bargain

I’m well aware everyone loves a bargain, especially with tradies giving cash discounts. We all understand household budgets are being stretched to the limit by ever-increasing state government charges on electricity, car registration and water charges.

In the 41 years I’ve been in business, nothing has changed in one area, and that is so many people expect substantial cash discounts if they pay tradies in cash.

The Australian economy’s trade services sector is notorious for undercutting and giving cash discounts to clients who pay in cash.

 Tradies who offer substantial cash discounts are tax cheats

Generally, tradies who offer substantial cash discounts are solo operators who pocket the cash and not pay for critical business expenses to protect clients such as public liability insurance. As a rule, they are also tax cheats which cost us all more in tax ultimately.

Cash discounts rip everyone off, including yourself when you have no invoice to prove who did the work, which means no guarantees if anything goes wrong.

Paying cash frequently means you have no guarantee

I have lost count of the number of times I have been out to defective and non-compliant plumbing jobs where the client cannot get hold of the original plumber who did the work. Frequently this is because they have no record of who did the work as they paid in cash for the work to be done cheaply. This results in the client paying twice to have the same job undertaken and often costs much more to rectify and make legally compliant.

The ATO and the Tax Commissioner, Chris Jordon are 100% correct in saying cash discounts were ripping “billions of dollars” out of the economy that would otherwise be going to services such as schools and hospitals.

Like most other business owners I am 100% supportive of Chris Jordon when he recently issued a passionate plea to Australians to stop paying tradies in cash as the ATO confronts a host of black-economy rorts that include the fraudulent misuse of ABN’s.

Stop paying cash for a discount

“Stop paying cash for a discount,” he has told taxpayers.“Because you are effectively cheating the system or helping someone else to. This is not a victimless crime. If you pay cash for a discount, in many cases you are effectively ripping off yourself as an Australian taxpayer, because this type of behaviour is what sees ­billions flow out of the tax system and into the cash economy.”

The Australian Government’s Black Economy Taskforce has estimated that the cash economy is now in excess of $25 billion a year. Simply this is $25 billion of cash transactions where no tax is paid in GST or PAYG or superannuation or company tax.

Always demand a legitimate tax invoice

I’m well aware some people like to pay in cash but don’t rip yourself off by not getting an invoice from the tradie who has done your work if you pay him in cash. As a precaution, you should always ensure that you are getting a legitimate ‘Tax Invoice’ with all the tradies details on it, including a legitimate ABN and their QBCC contractor licence number.

It’s effortless to check an ABN to ensure it’s not a fictitious ABN. All you need to do is go the ABN Lookup and type in the ABN. It is quick and easy to do but gives you the assurance that you are dealing with a legitimate business that is paying their fair share of tax.

Every tradie must have a QBCC contractors licence, and once again it’s very easy to check at the QBCC Online Licence Search. Remember if they don’t have a contractor licence, then you do not have to pay them.

The old cliche that you get what you pay for will always be true

Scarily the Black Economic Taskforce found 40% of ABN’s quoted where cash was paid to tradies, were false and were the Bunnings ABN. There is no suggestion Bunnings has done anything wrong.

The old cliche that you get what you pay for will always be true. There is no need to ever pay cash despite what some tradies will try and force you to do. It would help if you never let a tradie take you to an ATM where they sit with you, watching you take out cash.

In today’s world of instant payments, it pays to protect yourself and create a digital trail.

At Whywait Plumbing we will happily take payment in cash or cheque or credit card. But we will not give you a discount for paying in cash ever as every job is invoiced correctly and paid into our bank account.

Remember at Whywait we ensure you always know the cost of your job before we start the job.

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